Beta males get less sex

Have you ever heard of a pick-up technique, the “neg”? Evidently the technique is well-known to pick-up “artists” :

For those who don’t know, the neg is a comment lobbed at a woman that knocks her off her pedestal. It is not an insult… well, actually, it kind of is (semantics). Who are we kidding? But it’s a playful insult, and some women secretly like being insulted. […]

Negs: turning your back to her, pointing out a flaw in her clothes, her hair, something, anything. “Hey your nose wiggles when you talk”. “Your lipstick is weird”. […]

Correcting body language is a great neg. I don’t like when people cross their arms, it’s a sign of anger, so when girls do it I tell them to uncross them. They always do, it’s a very alpha neg… and compliance test… […]

Black becomes white, up becomes down, cute becomes ugly – that 9 you would covertly beggar yourself for is suddenly seeking your smile, your good graces.

The writer is conflating two different results here. First, the “neg” is a put-down, which, in theory, causes the “girl” to seek the guy’s approval.

alpha maleSecond, the neg is an alpha behaviour which, the pick-up artist hopes, elicits the girl’s compliance. Now she is bending to your will; you have become the Master of your mutual destiny.

The whole, neanderthal scenario bugs me. Assuming that it actually works:  but presumably it does, at least frequently enough for this to be a well-known pick-up technique.

The scenario bugs me for the woman’s sake. She is being manipulated, denigrated, used (although she herself may be seeking casual sex) and ultimately discarded.

beta maleAnd it bugs me for my sake, since I am a beta male. The implication is, beta males get less sex precisely because they’re too nice:  too respectful.

The writer continues:

… the dreaded neg question — isn’t this proof that pickup is purest evil, that it is wrong […] to help the piles of beta males left behind by the sexual revolution?

There it is, explictly:  beta males aren’t getting any. Or at least, they aren’t getting their fair share. So says the neg champion.

I’m quite capable of playing the role of the alpha male. I do it from time to time:  with a colleague at work who is trying to push me around, for example; or some jackass that I encounter in a public space. I’m not a big man (rather the reverse), but I’m capable of being aggressive and I can be intellectually intimidating. Generally speaking, when I set out to browbeat someone, I succeed.

Thus I’m not a beta male by necessity; I’m a beta male by choice. I don’t feel that I have to be in control of people and situations for the sake of my ego. I believe in respecting people, including women. And I believe in building up other people’s self-esteem — not putting them down.

I deem it morally repugnant to manipulate someone so that s/he will do my bidding. I think presenting people with accurate information so that they can make informed decisions is the right thing to do.

Which is the very definition of a beta male, right? But I am what I am for reasons of conscience, not because I’m incapable of butting heads when I’m sufficiently motivated to do so.

I’ve never been one to “play the field”. In my adult life, I’ve had two, long-term relationships:  sixteen years the first time; eleven years and counting this time around.

I’m not on the prowl for extramarital sex. But that doesn’t prevent me from noticing that women don’t often respond sexually to me. And I think the analysis quoted above has merit. Women don’t respond sexually because I don’t play the aggressive, manipulative, alpha male who wants to party without the complication of an emotional connection.

I suppose the pick-up artist is setting off my insecurities. And I shouldn’t let it bug me, since I’m in a perfectly fulfilling relationship. But hey, what’s a blog for, if not to bitch about the way things work in this crazy, mixed-up world?

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8 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Zayna
    Jul 25, 2009 @ 16:48:56

    I really can’t believe this kind of tripe is passed off as valuable dating advice.

    “Correcting body language is a great neg. I don’t like when people cross their arms, it’s a sign of anger, so when girls do it I tell them to uncross them. They always do…”

    Yeah, I might…but only to give him a clear view of both middle fingers. How’s that for a sign of anger?

    Any woman who falls for that kind of “pick-up” manipulation has just as many issues as the man instigating it.

    Real relationships are formed by really relating…plain and simple. The rest is nonsense.

    And I agree, this kind of post is exactly what a blog is for. 🙂

    Reply

  2. nebcanuck
    Jul 25, 2009 @ 18:02:31

    Any woman who falls for that kind of “pick-up” manipulation has just as many issues as the man instigating it.

    That was my thought, too, when I read the article (I’m assuming this is the one on Time.com… I didn’t look at the link). I’m always very hesitant to paint people, especially victims, with a negative brush. But women who are hanging around bars by themselves looking to be picked up either have a troubled past, or are into a lifestyle that I don’t comprehend because of its destructiveness. So it makes sense to me that something which would bother women like my fiancée would be a “turn-on” to this kind of women. Those who are hurt, we should try to help when we meet them in “real life” scenarios. Those who are just destructive because that’s what’s “fun” will have to wake up some day, and then they’ll probably shift into the “hurt” category.

    As for me, I don’t find myself envying the guys much, either. I enjoy my long-term relationship. I enjoy that we’ve dealt with (and largely resisted) sexual temptations even in that light. I enjoy that I will have an opportunity to be a godly leader, not an “alpha male”. If there’s a category that matters to me, it’s not sexual prowess, it’s godly composure towards women.

    I mentioned it in my last post on Guys Who Do Cool Stuff, but I really do recommend Four Pillars of a Man’s Heart as a book which conveys what it means to be a real man, rather than this garbage version thereof who thinks taking advantage of women is somehow a sign of value.

    Reply

  3. Stephen
    Jul 26, 2009 @ 13:37:40

    • Zayna:
    Any woman who falls for that kind of “pick-up” manipulation has just as many issues as the man instigating it.

    Maybe. I certainly don’t mean to imply that every woman, or even most women, would fall for it. I assume it’s a case where, if a guy uses the technique dozens of times, a certain (small) percentage of women will respond positively.

    But I think readers may be missing the forest for the trees. The tree is the neg: a specific pick-up technique, which is so spectacularly offensive that everyone is focused on it.

    But I meant “the neg” as an illustration of a broader principle (the forest), which is that women tend not to find polite, respectful, deferential, sensitive men sexually attractive.

    I’ve struggled a bit looking for terminology to express what I think women do respond to. Ilona suggests, a guy who is “a bit edgy; self-confident to the point where it borders on cockiness”. If he crosses the line and becomes flagrantly cocky, most women find that off-putting. But the terms I used earlier — polite, respectful, deferential, sensitive — lack the reqisite degree of edginess.

    The neg should be viewed as an extreme example, but still a valid illustration of the point that “beta males” get passed over when it comes to sex.

    • Benjamin:
    If there’s a category that matters to me, it’s not sexual prowess, it’s godly composure towards women.

    Sure. And I am likewise concerned about upholding my core values, which include treating everyone (men and women) with respect. I wouldn’t violate that value for the sake of sex.

    I’m also not setting out to engage in promiscuity. On the other hand, most people want to be found sexually attractive.

    I’ve already explained the general point I was trying to make. Let me offer another illustration.

    Ilona has been reading about a “blog her” convention — I’m probably spelling that wrong. (Update: correct spelling, BlogHer.) It’s an association of feminist bloggers. But several men joined the convention wearing t-shirts with a rather negative message toward women.

    In one instance, the t-shirt had an image of naked breasts, with the nipples replaced by “@” symbols. And the message was, “Show us your tweets.” Hah, hah.

    One of the BlogHer women posted on the offensiveness of those shirts, and the guys’ behaviour — showing up at a pro-women gathering of women, wearing clothing that at the very least was disrespectful of women as anything more than objects for men’s sexual use.

    Here’s the interesting thing. The post has spawned lots of comments and, in a good many cases, the comments consist of women defending the guys. “I know them personally and they’re really nice” — “It was all in good fun” — that sort of thing.

    Women have no business defending those guys. Update: Here’s the link so that you can read the post, and the comments, for yourself.

    I think those men are cousins to the neg champion. I think they saw the BlogHer convention as a golden opportunity to get laid. And they took the approach of being brazenly sexist, to the point of being demeaning, controversy be damned.

    Judging from the comments by women who defended those jerks — I’m betting it worked, and they got laid.

    Maybe they could have gone to the conference and been polite, respectful, deferential, and sensitive, and they would have gotten sex that way, too. We can only speculate.

    But they took the negative approach, and a goodly number of women are actively defending them. Interesting, no?

    Reply

  4. nebcanuck
    Jul 26, 2009 @ 14:41:21

    Sorry. Wasn’t trying to disagree with the general point. It’s probably true that women — at least women who are looking — find those edgy men more sexually appealing. Your example of the convention is a good one, although I admit I find it a bit amusing that there’s some connection between defending the guy’s reputation (“he’s a nice guy”) and those men “getting laid”. The two seem completely unrelated, to me, since sex shouldn’t be a reward for being nice. This again points to the idea that these particular women are not thinking on a level I can relate to, entirely.

    I think you missed my forest for a tree, too, though:

    Sure. And I am likewise concerned about upholding my core values, which include treating everyone (men and women) with respect. I wouldn’t violate that value for the sake of sex.

    I wasn’t talking logically, morally, or even in terms of values, really. I was talking emotionally. I get far more joy out of seeing a woman feeling respected than I do out of them acting like they find me attractive. I love those moments of conversation when people (male or female) begin to open up some, and I can ask them questions about themselves. There’ve been times that people have remarked afterwards that they just told me more about themselves than they tell even close friends.

    That’s a lot cooler than them acting like I’m a “stud”, in my books. For feeling attractive, I get enough satisfaction out of my relationship.

    Reply

  5. Stephen
    Jul 26, 2009 @ 15:08:17

    I find it a bit amusing that there’s some connection between defending the guy’s reputation (”he’s a nice guy”) and those men “getting laid”. The two seem completely unrelated, to me.

    They aren’t directly related. But perhaps indirectly. There’s no direct connection between “the neg” and getting laid, either, but evidently it works at least sometimes.

    My point is that women should be able to see through such an obvious ruse. They ought to respond, as Zayna suggests, with both middle fingers.

    Yet these women, at a gathering of feminists, no less, are unable to see what’s wrong in the behaviour; moreover, they persist in viewing the men positively. And that makes them, at least potentially, vulnerable to the pick-up.

    Whereas, if they were canny enough to respond as Zayna suggests, those guys would certainly have gone home disappointed.

    btw, here’s the link. Money quote:

    Even here, in a space made by and for women, a space focused on the power of our thoughts and communication, rather than our bodies, we can easily be reduced to pieces of meat, intended for the pleasure and amusement of even just a few men. And we let them do it.

    Reply

  6. Zayna
    Jul 27, 2009 @ 16:39:45

    “But I meant “the neg” as an illustration of a broader principle (the forest), which is that women tend not to find polite, respectful, deferential, sensitive men sexually attractive.”

    This is hard for me to comment on since I’ve been with the same man since I was the ripe old age of 22 (15 years) and my memory of dating is, thank God, very hazy.

    I suppose it’s true though that there seems to be some ingrained attraction to the “bad boy” or “hard to get” type.

    I agree with Ilona though that there’s a fine line between edgy and cocky that if walked properly can be very sexy. But so self-assured that they think they can tell me how to stand…not so much.

    Perhaps it’s a case of quantity vs. quality? More doesn’t always mean better? I don’t know, that’s all I got.

    Reply

  7. Chris
    Jul 27, 2009 @ 17:09:28

    Isn’t that kinda like what 6 yr old boys do in kindergarden? Throw sand/mud/dirt at or push a girl you liked?

    Social Humanity is devolving apparently….

    Reply

  8. JewishAtheist
    Aug 05, 2009 @ 11:18:00

    I think it’s about status. Kissing up to you means that I think I’m not quite worthy. Teasing (i.e. “negging”) you means that I think we’re at least peers. By analogy, look at how male friends talk to each other. Many, many good male friends spend most of their conversations insulting (i.e. “negging”) each other.

    Reply

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